Interview with director Bille August

Can you tell us a little about the story of GOODBYE BAFANA? What does it tell us about today?
Our main character, James Gregory, arrives on Robben Island in the late sixties. He's a simple man with no education, who just wants to be the perfect warder. He's an ardent supporter of the Apartheid system, and believes that Blacks should be second-class citizens. He gets a job in the censorship office because he speaks Xhosa, (the native language) and subsequently comes into daily contact with Mandela. He sees Mandela as the worst terrorist in the world, just as we see Osama Bin Laden today, but because Mandela is so bright and charismatic, James slowly starts to develop some interest in him and his ideas of a free and democratic South Africa.

Half way through the story, the system decides to send James away from Robben Island and to Cape Town. But having developed this very unique relationship, Mandela demands James Gregory be put in charge of him again, and as Mandela is moved around to various different prisons, James goes with him. Our story ends in 1990, when Mandela is released. By then they have spent more than two decades together! The extraordinary thing is that James really does change his fundamental beliefs because of his relationship with Mandela. He becomes living proof of Mandela's ideas about our essential goodness and the human capacity for self-transformation.

It's an important story, not only for South Africa - it demonstrates the importance of reconciliation for the entire world. I believe that now that there's even more conflict than ever, reconciliation is the only way we can survive.

We have two heroes in GOODBYE BAFANA, whose story is it?
In Goodbye Bafana we see Nelson Mandela through his opponent's eyes, through James Gregory's point of view. It's similar to Amadeus, where the story of Mozart is told through Salieri, which makes Mozart even more remarkable and gives the story further nuances. In Goodbye Bafana I think this point of view makes Mandela more fascinating and charismatic. With this context, one is able to understand more about his power and mind.

Who is the 'Bafana' of the title?
'Bafana' means 'best friend boy' in Xhosa. James Gregory grew up on a farm as a very lonely child and the only friend he had was a black boy. So the title refers to that relationship, which eventually leads to his encounter with Mandela.

GOODBYE BAFANA is driven by two love stories, one with James Gregory's wife, and one with Nelson Mandela. You wonder whether they ever had contact again.
I know that James Gregory met with Mandela on a couple of occasions after his release, but we must remember that when Mandela leaves prison it signifies a new beginning for South Africa. That's when Mandela's life project begins. However, James Gregory's life project was Mandela, and when Mandela leaves the prison it's a bittersweet moment for him. For Gregory it is, 'Goodbye Bafana'.

How do you see the development of the main characters, James, Gloria, and Mandela?
James is a simple family man. And yet, he's also very ambitious, and is determined to be a good warder. We witness over the course of his meetings with Mandela how he gradually starts to doubt his ideas about the Apartheid system and how he begins to change. About halfway through our story he finds himself deeply conflicted: should he follow Mandela's ideas of a free and democratic South Africa, or should he stay faithful to the old ideas that his family hold dear? He becomes torn between these two worlds. Those who were his enemies become his friends, and those who were his friends become his enemies.

And Gloria?
Her character is even more ambitious than James' and she is very close to her family. So when she realises that James is growing ever closer to Mandela, she finds herself under a lot of pressure. Eventually, she chooses her husband over her family and her old values and undergoes an enormous transformation herself.

Mandela?
Mandela is Mandela! What can you say about Mandela? His ideas are so beautiful and powerful. I honestly believe the biggest challenges in doing the film was to get Mandela right, because every human being on earth has a picture of him. Everyone knows something about Mandela, everyone has seen an image of him, people know how he talks, his body language, his ideas. So to get that right was an enormous challenge.

How did you do your research?
Doing research on the story meant we had to see all possible footage of South Africa, and especially Nelson Mandela. Given his unique speech, it was also vital to get the body language and accent right. Dennis worked intensely with a South African dialogue coach. What was crucial to me was authenticity. I spent almost half a year in South Africa, just studying the people and also trying to understand how it was during Apartheid. I interviewed a whole host of people including ex- prisoners, ex-warders, etc., and surrounded myself by books about the country. I was also able to visit Robben Island on a number of occasions. All in all, I felt very prepared.

James Gregory died in 2003, did you have any contact with him?
James Gregory had just passed away when I got involved in the project, so unfortunately I never met him, but I did meet his wife Gloria many times, and also the children. I had many questions for her about their life on Robben Island, and also questions about Apartheid. She was a huge help.

What has it been like to shoot in the actual locations where these events took place, and work with actors and extras who actually lived under Apartheid?
I felt we had to shoot in the real locations. I must say it's been a fantastic experience to be in South Africa and work with the South African crew. They are very experienced because so many American and European films are shot in South Africa. Also, the topic of the film is still a bit of an open wound. I won't say it is taboo, but it still hurts. And so, making this film meant a lot to the people and the crew.

How did you go about casting Joseph Fiennes? Thinking of the films he has done, he wouldn't be the obvious choice for James Gregory.
When we started the whole casting process, we had seven names on the list, and Joe Fiennes was one of them. Days later I got a call from Joe, saying he was desperate to play James Gregory. I had a meeting with him, and it was clear that he understood the character extremely well. We also wanted someone who had the ability to age over the course of the film. Joe is a wonderfully skilled actor, but most of all, he really understood the character, and for me that desire and energy means everything.

What makes Dennis Haysbert perfect for the part of Nelson Mandela?
We really wanted an actor who could express the intelligence of Mandela, but again it was essential that the actor fit the age. The image we have today of Mandela is as an old man, but in our story he's much younger, so we needed somebody who could accomplish the transformation. I had a meeting with Dennis Haysbert, who was very keen to play Mandela. For actors playing famous people is usually very daunting, as the public will already have their own preconceptions. Dennis was fantastic though, and went about constructing his own vision of Mandela, feeling he had the key to the character. I think he did a wonderful job.

The film spans almost two decades. What did you know about Mandela in the 60's, 70's, and 80's?
I think very few people were aware of Mandela in the 60's, but of course during the late 70's and 80's when there was the great campaign to free Mandela, people became aware and he became the world symbol for a free and democratic South Africa. It amazes me that after 27 years behind bars he still was able to say, 'For this country to survive, we have to forgive each other, we have to understand each other. Reconciliation is the most important thing.' If it hadn't been for him, there would have been civil war in South Africa.

What do you think about South Africa today, and the way society has developed?
But for Mandela, this country would have been a very different place. It feels like a miracle that such a man is alive now, in our time. Being here, you begin to understand that to successfully create a free and democratic country is a huge and daunting task especially after so many years of Apartheid. They have democracy now, but they haven't been able to get rid of poverty. With such a degree of poverty, crime inevitably appears, and there's a great deal of it in South Africa. All the countries in Africa are suffering from the many years of colonialism and poverty, and I think it will take many years to put it right. What they're really missing in Africa is a middle class, a middle class who pay taxes, and can finance what we call the wealth of society. As long as there is this lack, Africa will struggle. But I know there is a tremendous will to solve problems in South Africa and that everyone is working very hard.